A little while back we did an interview with N creators Metanet Software. Now it’s the turn of those lovely people at Slick Software who converted the ninja to the 360’s Arcade service. Nick Waanders and Kees Rynen, the floor is yours.
GDN: Nick, did you and Kees know each other before joining Digital Infinity in 1998?
NW: Digital Infinity was a software company founded by a friend of mine, and I joined him to start making games. We needed some artists, and we only knew a few from our days before Digital Infinity, which were spent on making PC demo’s. So we decided to go to a demo party in the Netherlands to see if there were some 3D-artists that might be willing to work with us on games. We looked around on all the monitors, but most 3D-artists at the demo party were making blocky space ships, not something we were looking for. Then this one guy was making 3D-models of insects, which was quite different from all the spaceships because of the rounded curves. This guy turned out to be Kees, and this is how we started working together at Digital Infinity.
GDN: Had you both collaborated on projects together before setting up Slick?
NW: Yeah, when Digital Infinity merged with Orange Games and Formula Games to form Lost Boys Games, which is now Guerrilla Games (are you still with me?), we worked on a project we started at Digital Infinity called Knights. Knights was a physics platformer with a cartoony look. Kees was the lead artist until he moved to Canada, and I was the lead programmer, so we worked together quite closely.
GDN: Was there a particular game that made you get into the industry and if so, what?
NW: I’d say this would be Knights, because it was our first experience with actually making a full-on game, dealing with publishers, dealing with bigger teams, etc. Even though the game was cancelled and never actually saw the light of day, it still game me enough credible experience to start at Relic. The first title on my resume that actually means something though would be Homeworld 2, since that’s the first shipped title.
GDN: What was the very first program/game you coded on any machine?
NW: My dad was flying around the world a lot for his work, and he would take these big fat computer magazines from the states. Back then you couldn’t get those in the Netherlands, so it was always a huge treat to get them when he came back from his trips. These mags had giant code-listings in the back that you could type in on your C64. So I’d literally spend three days typing in those listings, only to go ’Run’ and then get a message saying ’Syntax Error.’. So frustrating, but it did teach me how to read code, and slowly but surely understand what was going on.
GDN: The reputation of previous projects is almost like a who’s who of gaming for the thinking man (Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War). Did you work on these projects with a love for the genre, or was it simply a case of getting the job done?
NW: I moved to Relic because I loved Homeworld. That game was just something else. When I decided I wanted to leave Lost Boys Games I sent out a bunch of letters around the globe (there weren’t many companies in the Netherlands to go work at back then), and Relic replied almost immediately. At my job interview they asked me if I would be interested in working on Homeworld 2. I thought about it for a very long nano-second and said yes. I like strategy games myself, so it was definitely a love for the genre. The only game I worked on that put me in a mode of ’just get the job done’ was The Outfit for the Xbox 360. That doesn’t mean I didn’t like working on it, I did very much actually. We had a great team, but it was definitely a working-on-great-technology kind of satisfaction rather than a love for the game genre. Kees worked at Bioware for 4.5 years on Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire and Mass Effect. He’s very much into character driven games, and Bioware was a perfect fit for him.
GDN: One of the games you both worked on was the unreleased title Knights on the PS2. Tell us about the game and, if you can, what happened to it.
NW: The game started off as a multiplayer-only jump and run battle game for the PC with a 3dfx voodoo card and the Dreamcast. Then when we merged with the other studios to form Lost Boys Games, and our publisher went bankrupt, the game was changed to be a single player jump and run game. The game suffered from multiple problems, the biggest ones being not having any designers on a game of this scope, and not having a publisher that was prepared to actually sign a contract. In the end we did have a playable demo that was running on the PS2, but the company had to cut its losses and focus on one game only (Killzone) instead of three (another game was cut as well). I think it was the right decision for the company to make, but it did suck for the people on the games that got cut of course.
GDN: You recently worked on the N+ for XBLA (reviewed not too long ago), how did that come about?
NW: I’ve been thinking about starting my own company for a long time, but never really saw the right moment or situation to actually go and do it. A friend of mine who left Relic to start his own company (Klei Entertainment) called me up around January 2007 and said ’Hey, I’ve got a signed project and money to fund it; I just need somebody to do it. Want to start your own company?’. At Relic I just finished Dawn of War - Dark Crusade, and we just started a new project (Dawn of War 2, just got announced) that was going to take at least another two years to finish, which I didn’t really look forward to. On the personal front, I don’t have a mortgage to pay, no kids, and I saved up enough money to be able to survive for at least a year and a half. In other words, the moment to start doing this project was not going to get any better than this.
GDN: Now that N+ is done and dusted, can we look forward to anything new and exciting coming from the Slick stables any time soon
NW: Oh yes! We’re currently doing a few smaller contracts to get some money into the company, but we’re also working hard on our own game. It’s all very secretive, but it’s going to be a fun little racing game. And of course we’re working on awesome level packs for N+!
GDN: And how good are you at the game itself?
NW: Haha! I am actually pretty average at N+. I programmed the game, but I didn’t design the maps. The maps were done by the same people that did the original flash game ’N’ for the PC (Metanet Software), and they are WAY better at N+ than me. I have trouble getting through the first 30 episodes! This is why I prefer the co-op modes, you can get through the levels with two average-Joe’s (me being one), instead of having to be one lone super ninja (which I am not).
GDN: Canada is fast making its mark on the games industry, with companies like Ubisoft Montreal, EA’s Canada studios, Metanet and yourselves paving the way for others to follow. What’s your take on this?
NW: I think it’s great! Before I came here I never knew that Canada was so big in games, but now when I look around in Vancouver alone, there are dozens of game studios, big and small. I think it’s great because it means that if Slick Entertainment is going bust, there’s always another company to work at :-)
GDN: Digital Infinity eventually became Guerilla Games. Were both of you still in the company when Killzone hit the shelves, or had you already gone by then to pastures new?
NW: We both quit and moved elsewhere way before Killzone came out. Kees moved to Calgary (Canada) about half a year or so before Knights stopped production and later moved to Edmonton to work at Bioware. When Knights got cancelled I decided to quit and apply at other studios, and ended up at Relic. I think Killzone came out about three years after Knights got cancelled.
GDN: In your own opinion, would you say it’s a good time to be in the games industry, or do you think that some of the older years represent the golden age of video games?
NW: I think any new medium is best to get into as early as possible. Lots of the people that were making games 20 years ago are now huge players in the industry. However, if you want to start your own studio and do your own thing, I think now is a very very good time. The tools are getting better (XNA, Torque, etc), and the distribution methods are as well. I am hoping this will become the age of the indie-developer.
GDN: What’s the best memory that you have of your time in the games industry to date?
NW: Hmm, there’s so many. Showing N+ at the Penny Arcade Expo on our own homebuilt display stand was good (see our webpage for pictures of the creation of the stand). The nights in town that we got absolutely smashed with the Dawn of War team were good. The Dawn of War press party at the E3 was good too, they picked us up in these huge stretched Hummer-limos with double axles in the back. Good times.
GDN: And finally, is there anything you’d like to say to the gamers of the world? The floor is yours :)
NW: Go check out N+ for Xbox Live Arcade! It may not look all next-gen, but it’s a fun game. And if it’s too hard, get a pal to join you and beat the levels in co-op. It’s a lot of fun.
GDN: Nick and Kees, thank you very much indeed.
NW: You’re welcome!
